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Healers Talk Healing Podcast
The Healers Talk Healing podcast invites you on a transformative journey towards holistic healing, where we explore the mind-body connection, natural remedies, and ancient wisdom to empower you to live a vibrant and balanced life. Join us as we share inspiring stories, expert interviews, and practical tips to help you unlock your true potential and embrace a happier, healthier you.
Healers Talk Healing Podcast
Is Forgiveness the Key to Inner Peace?
Discover the profound impact of forgiveness in our latest episode, where we journey through the complex narratives of healing and personal growth. Join hosts Nina Ganguli and Lynn Herod-DeVerges as they unveil the transformative power of forgiveness, highlighting how it can shift our consciousness and reclaim our dignity in the face of life’s challenges.
In this thought-provoking discussion, we explore how forgiveness is not merely about letting go of past grievances but is instead a powerful act of self-liberation. Through heartfelt stories and reflective insights, we examine how forgiveness can lead to radical acceptance of ourselves and others and pave the way toward a more empowered and joyful existence.
Listeners will learn practical strategies to integrate forgiveness into their lives, recognizing the importance of emotional processing and the lessons that accompany painful experiences. The conversation encourages embracing vulnerability, compassion, and the remarkable growth that can stem from difficulties faced.
Join us as we invite you to reflect on your own experiences with forgiveness and how it shapes your healing. Whether you’re at the beginning of your journey or seeking deeper understanding, this episode offers rich insights and encouragement for all.
Don’t forget to subscribe and share your thoughts with us! Your feedback helps foster this community of healing and growth. Let this journey inspire you to reclaim your power and transform your life through the gift of forgiveness.
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Welcome to Healers Talk Healing, the podcast where we gather to explore the art and science of holistic healing, uncovering the secrets to a happier, healthier you. I'm your host, nina Ganguly, and together we will delve into the intriguing world of holistic healing, delving into the mind-body connection, ancient wisdom and natural remedies to the mind-body connection, ancient wisdom and natural remedies. Get ready for enlightening stories, thought-provoking expert interviews and practical tips that will empower you to unlock your true potential and embrace a vibrant, balanced life. Whether you're an experienced wellness enthusiast or simply curious about the power of healing, join us on this exhilarating journey as we share the wisdom and insights that can truly transform your life. It's time to embark on a voyage towards a happier, healthier you. So, without further ado, let's dive into the captivating world of Healers Talk Healing.
Speaker 1:Welcome to this episode of Healers Talk Healing. Join Lynn Harrod-Divergis and I, nina Ganguly, in a deep, transformative conversation about healing, growth and the power of forgiveness. In today's episode, we explore how forgiveness is not just about letting go, but it's about reclaiming our power, shifting our consciousness and embracing personal growth. Through personal stories, reflections and insights, we uncover how radical acceptance and forgiveness can free us from past pain and open the door to a more peaceful, empowered life. Whether you're on a healing journey or just beginning to explore the power of self-awareness, this episode would leave you with profound insights and practical wisdom.
Speaker 2:So take a deep breath, settle in and let's dive into this powerful conversation on healing, transformation and the miracles that come with forgiveness full of miracles are 10 stories, as I said, that are excerpts of different experiences in my life, and there's one that's called Forgive, and I think Forgive is a very poignant aspect of what we need to do in order to grow, Because without forgiveness there is no growth, without forgiveness there is no learning or becoming woke.
Speaker 2:That's still a decent word or a popular word, but to forgive is to shift consciousness from out there to in here. That's what forgiveness really is, and I believe that so many people, because we have been taught and because we are beings who sometimes have a challenge taking responsibility for things, looking at our own stuff and all of that and so what we do is we want to put it on someone else, something else or what have you. Yes, there are circumstances in life that do come up and happen, but the reality is no one does anything to us, nothing happens to us, nothing happens to us in specifically. Yes, there are circumstances we live through, but, as human beings who are here in the timeframe that we are, our sole focus purpose, whether we're aware of it or not, is growth. It's what we do automatically.
Speaker 1:I agree 100%. And hey, welcome into our conversation today on Healers Talk Healing with the incredible Lynn Herod-Divergis and myself, nina Ganguly, and it looks like today we're going to be talking about forgiveness, which is one of my favorite topics. Actually, I have read a book called Radical Forgiveness. It's actually on my desk because I just my friend of mine was asking well, book, should my um book club read there into growth and spiritual growth? There she's a with a yoga group.
Speaker 1:Let me think, let me think and I'm like radical forgiveness, I think it's a, it's, it's really all about what you were saying. It's kind of stepping back and looking at okay. So if I want a certain thing in life, which is most people are looking for happiness, joy, peace, however they come to it at the end, you know, not at the end of the day, but throughout their journey, however they they come to that happiness or peace, joy it. I I do believe it starts with that looking at your life and looking where you can make choices and have, have that um, that saying okay, to me, forgiveness. So I'm going all over the road because there's so much in here that wants to come out, but to me, literally, forgiveness is, is aligned with radical acceptance. Okay, none of us can change the circumstances that have passed and yet we sit and ruminate about. Well, I had said this, I wish this has happened. I wish I had never met this person, had this conversation, taken this job, bought this car, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2:That is sort of in in the way that you're ruminating about, and I know I'm a ruminator for sure well, I I think everyone is, you know in different ways and to different extents, but what's interesting about what you're saying is that, without all of those things that you, that one wishes they hadn't done or had done differently, or oh man, you know, if only I had a and all of that, those are the things that brought you to where you are today, and wouldn't you say that today you are at your best self, more so than yesterday?
Speaker 1:Yes, and you know, just to get a little more into that conversation, I had to do a lot of accepting and forgiving in order to see the lesson. If I hadn't done the accepting and the forgiving, I wouldn't have been able to now look back and say, oh okay, oh okay, and it's an individual thing. Some people may look at it and say there's no lesson there, and some people will say, okay, there was a lesson. But I'm looking at my you know my history and saying, okay, now I understand why this happened or why this, you know, fell into place. And yeah, it was not fun, it was, it was actually horrible and but I can take what it's meant to teach me. I can grow from there, I can do.
Speaker 1:I am who I am because of all of the things that have happened and what happened in my life, all of those dreams and wishes you wanted to be fulfilled and didn't get fulfilled. We always talk about the things that have happened, but there's also a lot of things that we wanted that didn't happen, that ended up being for our greater good, and also forgiving those things that didn't work out Sorry, not that didn't work out, but like didn't happen. That you wanted to happen, yes, I so badly wanted to become a project manager, so badly. I took the lessons, you know. I went to school, I did some extra courses and I applied many times to be a project manager and it never happened.
Speaker 2:Which clearly was not meant to happen. And yet I use those skills all the time, of course. And yet I use those skills all the time Of course. And I was just going to say yet you're still a project manager in what you do, whether it be the feelings we have around it, and ask ourselves is that really the essence of the way we want to move forward? Or should we just take the essence of what we've gained from that situation to forgive? Forgive ourselves, it's all.
Speaker 2:Typically, it's always about forgiving yourself because, we spoke before about what everyone that you see interact with have a relationship with experience is you, so how can it be something outside of you when you're the person that's always in the story?
Speaker 1:So in our experience, in the story, this is true, right? So in our experience of life, we tend to forget that it's our experience of life and it is. It's like that's my movie. I'm the director, I'm the, the actor, I'm the story writer, I'm the I'm all of it, the producer, and so it is always an inside job always, always, constantly.
Speaker 2:So I wrote this little book oh my gosh, what year are we in? So this must have been 27 years ago and it's called Pocketful of Miracles and it's 10 true stories of what I considered miracles, but a lesson with each miracle. And before our coming together this morning, I was reading one of the stories and I'm like oh, wow, and it was a story of forgiveness. And I was like, hmm, okay, so that was the beginning. That experience as parts of it were wonderful and parts of it didn't feel as wonderful actually, on a whole was one of the best experiences I could have had, because it was a precursor that led me to where I am today.
Speaker 2:Without that experience, not only would I not have really delved deeper sooner around forgiveness, but I also would have just continued to move along in the same consciousness, and I guarantee you I would probably be an executive VP, you know, at some bank, somewhere, or an attorney, instead of doing what I'm doing now, which is this is what I love. This is my passion is to now, which is this is what I love this is my passion is to assist people in their own journey and their growth and personal process. So that's, you know it, just speaks to it. It's a short story and I've been debating whether I should read it or not, now that I've admitted that it's.
Speaker 1:I think you need to read it now. I think the listeners are going to be like wait a minute, you can't leave us hanging. You've got to share that, that main story, the impetus to who you are today all right, I'll read.
Speaker 2:I will read it. Um, each chapter, each story starts actually with a quote from A Course in Miracles. I know some of the listeners out there may not be familiar with A Course in Miracles, but it's a powerfully written book that you cannot just read with your intellect, you have to read it with your spirit, really, truly, and there are many people around the globe who help interpret it. But anyway, it starts with this this is the Course in Miracles. Can you imagine how beautiful those you forgive will look to you? Nothing that you remember, that made your heart sing with joy, has ever brought you even a little part of the happiness this sight will bring you, for you will see the Son of God. I think it's just a beautiful quote, and that's how I feel, also about forgiveness, because when you see the Son of God, you're seeing yourself again, reflected back, right, okay, so here's the story. I've changed the names to protect the guilty.
Speaker 1:Love that.
Speaker 2:All right. So Barbara, young and naive, was talked into a blind date by her friend Shirley. The arrangement was that Barbara would be at Shirley's house for a visit around the time Henry was expected. He was Shirley's tenant. Shirley had really talked him up, describing Henry as a man with a good sense of humor who liked to have fun. He was a fantastic musician and, of course, incredibly handsome. When Barbara arrived for her meeting, shirley took it upon herself to show Barbara some of Henry's photo albums so she could get a look at how gorgeous Henry was. For Barbara, those photo albums revealed a lot more than just Henry's looks. He had pictures of girls from all over the world with descriptive captions of what he liked, detailing what he remembered most about each one. This was his collection of women stretching from port to port. Barbara decided right then and there she would only meet this man, but nothing else. She was curious to see what type of character he was, to have collected women the way children do toys.
Speaker 2:When Henry walked into the house, barbara was engaged in conversation with a few of his friends who had come by just prior to his arriving. She acted as if she did not see him yet out of the corner of her eyes she caught a glimpse of him. She noticed how he was intently watching her. Finally, they were officially introduced. When Barbara looked up to greet him, she tried not to show how taken she was with his handsome appearance, which was overshadowed only by his charming demeanor, and that's all it took. Barbara knew if she asked. Barbara knew if he asked her out, she would not be strong. She would not be strong enough to resist. So much for firm thoughtfulness.
Speaker 2:Two nights later, henry and Barbara went out on their first date. They fell in love and quickly moved in together. Their relationship sizzled with all of the passion young love brings. For the first six months it was the most perfect relationship Barbara had ever experienced. In fact it was almost too perfect. It wasn't long, though, before Barbara found out Henry was seeing another woman being in the Navy. Henry traveled frequently. The woman he was seeing lived in another city several hundred miles away. This was the nightmare Barbara knew she might face, but hoped she would never have to. How foolish she was to believe she could change him. Sound familiar ladies, that living with her would be enough for him. Once she found out about the other woman, she began to realize that the other woman was really one out of several other women. Henry was a woman magnet. He had offers from women, the way many celebrities do. Yet Henry never left Barbara. He continuously told her how much he loved her. He promised he would change, straightening up his act as long as she didn't leave him. For periods of time he did appear to be more attentive, more sincere and more loving, but it only lasted until the next woman came along.
Speaker 2:Barbara continued to stay with Henry for three long years, with many disappointments, nights of tears, fits of anguish. The final straw came, however, when Henry took Barbara's sports car, telling her he was going to the store and would be back shortly. Henry was gone for three days. Barbara knew, had no idea where he was. Henry was gone. Oh I'm sorry. Henry was gone for three days. Barbara knew not where. When he called to say the ship was leaving that day for a month and she could pick up her car at the pier, barbara was furious I will use the word enraged. She screamed enough is enough. When Henry returned, all of his things were packed, waiting outside the house for him. He left eagerly to live with the woman whose house he had visited for those three days previously. But it wasn't long, though, before she told him to leave her house too. Having nowhere to go, he told Barbara he missed her, asking her, even begging her to take him back. He seemed sincere. Barbara said uh-uh, nope, no way. No way can I take you back. But if you need a place to stay, I will help you for two weeks only, so you can find another home.
Speaker 2:During the time Henry lived at the other woman's house, barbara focused on moving on with her life. She was angry, bitter, resentful, hating Henry and everything he represented. But it was an intense process for Barbara, as she acknowledged the anger, first at him and then, surprisingly, at herself. After all, she knew what type of man he was, and she let her emotions steer her into ignoring the evidence. Her own arrogance and thinking she could change him prevailed, but in the end, all she was left with was the truth that, indeed, he never did it to her. She did it to herself. It was a hard lesson, but Barbara woke up to the realization that her arrogance and pride created an illusion, showing her what she wanted to believe about herself and the situation, instead of facing reality. The reality was that Henry, too, had a problem, a problem with ego. He clung to the belief that he was powerful because women found him attractive and wanted to be with him. This was a false sense of power, but he was the only one who could change himself.
Speaker 2:Barbara found it in her heart to forgive him. She let go of the bitterness, the anger, the resentment, the hatred she felt for him, only to discover she remembered the good times, the happy times. She knew she would never want to be together with him again. Yet she knew that in forgiving Henry she had grown far beyond this consciousness existence. She knew she loved him, but no longer from an obsessive, self-destructive place. Now she came from a place of compassion and wishing him well on his life's journey. Barbara knew in her forgiveness she had given him a greater love.
Speaker 2:So I ended it with to forgive is for giving love. It's to give love to another person. You may not want to see or be around that person again, but in your heart you want that person to thrive and do well, and that's really part of the key to forgiveness. It's not forgetting what happened, but it's acknowledging and taking responsibility right for yourself and your participation in whatever it is, and therefore it's being able to love the other person unconditionally and want the best for them too. And so the miracle is, when you forgive another, you are divinely loving yourself as well, divinely loving yourself as well. So that's that is. That was a very poignant period of my life, because it was. It was a very deep love that I experienced at the time and, yeah, it really it helped turn some things around.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, out of great pain comes the as we begin to heal. Out of great pain comes the aha moments, the realizations, the desire so deeply to move through that pain, and so it's the pain that helps us move and take steps toward where we need to go, that then we find ourselves not on this path that we had been on, which may have been self-destructive which was, in my case, self-destructive but you move on another path that really opens your life in a whole different way. So forgiveness is a powerful, powerful thing, and it's okay to be angry and upset and shout and scream and, in your mind, blame and all of those things, but at some point, if you really want to live the kind of life and experience the things that you choose to experience, you cannot hold on to that energy. You have to be able to forgive and then you can really move on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, inside of your story and inside of other stories that I've heard about forgiveness, or talking to people who are not in that space, have not gotten there.
Speaker 1:It's the word itself. It's like for me that I have this word, this feeling around the word submission, even though it's a very powerful word and it's, you know, it depends on what you're submitting to and the context in which you see the word. So you know, there are those who think forgiveness is like a giving up or a giving in or letting you off the hook sort of conversation in their mind. And it's not. No, it's not, but it's. It's what you said about the process. It's about saying, okay, this hurt me, it made me angry, and I'm going to process those feelings and I think that's really important to inside of the world of forgiveness. No one is asking anyone to be a martyr here and be like, yeah, no, it's, it's, it's okay, you did me wrong, I'm all right. No, no, no, no. There is the screaming, the swearing, the, the down and ugly and deep crying and not feeling very forgiving as you're processing. But I will say, based on my own experience, that forgiveness is like a gift you give yourself. Yes, it is a gift you give yourself. It is, you know, coming from, and I don't think everyone I have not really shared on in this podcast that you know, I grew, I experienced abuse for many years in my life and I have really fully forgiven my abuser. Now I will put throw in a caveat that happened after their passing. So I just I want to be real and authentic that I'm not sure if what that journey would have been like if that person was still in my life or still alive, but what I did learn is through forgiveness because it did take me a long time was that it didn't take up space anymore. Yes, it's true, it didn't take up space in my body. It didn't take up space in my mind. I didn't walk around, uh, feeling anymore that I was owed something because I sure did walk around like, hey, I went through this, I am owed happiness, I am owed a reprieve, and life doesn't show up that way just by the way. You know what I mean and in my experience, the letting go of how it should have been, what it should have been, how they should have been and they weren't, um, has been the most, the deepest gift that I have given myself, and it still doesn't always come easy.
Speaker 1:You know, you practice. It's like a muscle like think about this, we want to avoid pain. That's the way we were. We kind of were through evolution right, that's about survival through evolution. Right, that's about survival. Avoid pain, do what you need to survive, to get through things, and the pain is there to help you grow. It's like when you were talking, I was thinking about muscle mass, like when you're working out, when you go and do a workout, in order for your muscles to get stronger, to do what they can um, to opt, to work optimally, have to tear the muscle tissue, do that and then, as it repairs, it doesn't feel very nice you know, go to the gym and when it repairs it creates a little scar tissue and so forth.
Speaker 1:But that's also what bulks you up or, you know, makes it, makes you look it gives the results that you're looking for, for strength I'm going to talk about and looks and whatever it is you want, but for those of you who are listening and and are not maybe sitting in that place of hurt, sitting in that place of pain and thinking to yourself why me? You know we all have those thoughts. You know they fleet through. One of the things that helped me was why not me? I'm not any more special than anybody else, and using that analogy of oh oh, so this is like a workout I am going through. I'm just going to say this is my forgiveness workout. I'm going to practice this thing. I'm going to go through this thing. Yeah, it's easy to talk about once you've been through it and you're on the other end. However, it is truly powerful and I love what you said about it being divine and allowing that divinity inside of you to come through.
Speaker 2:To come through right exactly, and to see the divine in everything else. Know that it's also always a reflection. Here's something else, too, because we all come here for purposes of growth and learning. Before we enter this world as spiritual beings, even without physical bodies, there are various things we want to learn, and we all, whether we acknowledge it or not, which is why I say this is an inside job make choices along the way how we're going to learn those things.
Speaker 2:I chose the relationship with him, not consciously Well, yes, consciously in that moment I chose relationship with him, but really, the bigger picture is, I chose the relationship so that I could step into where I needed to be and a promise that was made when I was 14 that I would do this work but was trying to escape, and so, as a result, I found my way unconsciously to that point in time. So, when you even look at it from a broader perspective, was he to blame? No, I made the choice to learn in a way that had to be so viscerally, emotionally, mentally and even spiritually painful that it was a okay, not doing that again, not like that, and I never have Nope, and sometimes that's what we choose, but we have to take responsibility for the fact that that's what we choose and so when we begin to understand those just kind of fundamental things and practice so we can intellectually understand it, but it may not be what I call enriched in the, the, the soul, the spiritness of it.
Speaker 2:Okay, cause there are a lot of concepts, a lot of things that we say and other people speak about, and all kinds of books are written about and on and on and on. Much of it is intellectual are written about and on and on and on. Much of it is intellectual. But when you remove the intellect and you continue to practice, you start off with the. I have to share this real quickly.
Speaker 2:There's a woman, well, there was a couple who was married and during their marriage I wish I could remember their name you all have to forgive me, I'm not so good at names and this has been almost 40 years ago that I met them and heard this story, but anyway they married. He had a teaching position in I believe it was Japan or you know one of the countries overseas, and she became pregnant there and she was, you know, doing whatever she did at home. She wasn't working, but he worked and he said you know what, let's go to dinner later tonight. And she said okay, and he said so I'll be back home such and such a time, be ready. Well, she was ready and he didn't come. And no, I know what it was. She went out, that's what. She went out to the market and came back. And when she came back, she got ready. He didn't come and he didn't come. And then she realized she started checking around the house. He had been home while she was gone, taking all his clothes and left, left her in a foreign country with not knowing how to really speak the language. Well, uh, not having a job, he took all the money out of the bank account, so on and so forth. Okay, nonetheless, she did find her way back to the States, and of course she's pregnant. So she's like, how am I going to have this baby here? And of course she's pregnant. So she's like, how am I going to have this baby here?
Speaker 2:She was able to get back to the States with the help of family and friends and all she could do is think to herself I hate that son of a so-and-so, that bleep, bleep to bleep, blam is just I'm going to kick his blah, blah, blah. But you know, on and on right. That's all she could think. But she out of that really very painful experience. What she recognized was okay, well, you know, I have this beautiful child. And so she was, as she was thinking and seeing her child and mothering her child, she would think, well, at least he left me with something decent. But that son of a duck.
Speaker 2:And anyway, long story short, she actually moved into the ministry. She actually moved into the ministry and one of the things that she knew she had to do was forgive him, because that anger, that bitterness, was also attracting experiences to her that she didn't want. You know how so many people say I'm a good person. Why did this happen to me? Well, maybe you're holding on to something internally that is so deep and still, when you think about it or speak about it has such a visceral reaction that could be an energy that's attracting some experiences you may not want to have. Just saying Possible. And so, anyway, she changed no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Intellectually, she knew she had to forgive him, she knew that she needed to move along a different road, but it was the process that helped her move into forgiveness on a very authentic level, because she started off with I forgive you, you such and such and so. And so I forgive you, you, you such and such and so, and so I forgive you. I'm not feeling it yet, but you, I forgive you. And she did that consistently for several times a day for months until a point came where she went I forgive you. So you know, whatever his name was, I forgive you. And then she's like okay, I wasn't, I wasn't calling him the MF word or the that, and that that's a little different. And then so she continued, and then she you know, she's kind of checking in with herself, right and then she said, oh, I truly forgive you, oh, I forgive you.
Speaker 2:And so she continued to the place where she honestly and earnestly forgave him and forgave him so much so. And when that lifted and she went into forgiveness, she literally met her soulmate. He met his soulmate. What she came to understand is that, because of how she was, he could no longer stay with her for his own survival, if you will. Although he never expressed it, she realized that she could not have stayed with him, and probably wouldn't have, if they had moved back to the States together and moved forward. But at the place where it was left in the story, they both married other people, they both became great friends, and even when he was having some challenges with his current wife at that time as a minister. Now she was doing marriage counseling with them, wow. So it's a great story, but it's a true story about forgiveness. She was honest about it.
Speaker 2:She didn't just go okay, I need to forgive, so I forgive you. No, she was like I'm just, I'm gonna, I'm saying this out loud, I'm writing it out, I'm expressing it, but I don't. I, my heart's not feeling forgiveness, but my mouth will say it anyway. And that was the process until her, her words which they which, by the way, sound reverberates goes out into the universe and comes back to you because it recognizes your voice within seven seconds, which is why what you say and the words you use are very powerful. That's just a little side note. We can talk about that another time.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so as she can continue to say the words, it's coming back to her and it's resonating, and so it just continues to resonate and the vibration even of the words I forgive you, it has a higher resonance. And so, as you continue to do that, as she continued to do that, she moved into actual forgiveness. And up until that time, she went to school to be a minister. She was raising this child on her own. It was a struggle. She went through a lot of challenges and had no money, had not a lot of anything, and she was still going through her process. Not a lot of anything and she was still going through her process. But once she really let it go, she met her soulmate.
Speaker 1:Once I was able to forgive and continue along my journey, I connected with, saw me it's, it's very, very powerful and you know it, I'm, I'm, I'm sometimes I'm at a loss at words of how powerful that tool has been. And you're so right when you're taught. When you were sharing the story of the couple I was just thinking about, I remember one time being in a it's really weird I was in a corporate training and that's when I learned fake it till you, make it. And and what was interesting was this it's not a story about forgiveness, but I'm actually I just want to dive deep into that quick like this practice, this practice of like, okay, I'm going to show up and and I'm going to try to be forgiving, I'm going to take on what the I'm going to put that coat on. So one of the things I remember was I was having a hard time was after my father had passed away. I was having a hard time at work and we had done this training and one of the things she said was you know, sometimes in the corporate environment you may not feel like being in there, but when you're in a leadership position, you have to show up as a leader. And there are days when you don't want to or you literally cannot, and you have to, like fake it till you make it. And so I was. You know, I was struggling at work and therefore my performance was struggling and I lead a team, so their performance was struggling. And I remember hearing fake it till you make it. Like, okay, I'm going to fake it, I'm going to walk in and I'm going to be the top performing supervisor, like that, I'm, that's who I'm going to walk in as, even if I don't feel like it. So I'd walk in every day. I had the top performing team. Or we were at the bottom of the bucket. I have the top performing team. Oh, we were at the bottom of the bucket. I have the top performing team. I am the top performer. I am going to inspire my team every day.
Speaker 1:So I'd walk around and say hello to each one of them, even though I was like, don't feel like saying hello to you. You know, I had all the things going on your performances, like you know. I just wanted to blame them. I wanted to blame my boss, I wanted to blame everybody else yes, my dad for dying. You know, like everything, I just wanted to do the blame game. But every day I walked down the aisles, I said hello to my team. I said hello to my colleagues, I sat at my desk and I probably work like this. However, I put on the face and over time, you're, it just magically happened. I was not faking it anymore, I was walking in and so glad to be there and saying hi to my team and connecting with them. Cause what that did? It allowed me now to connect with them in a way that I probably wouldn't have connected.
Speaker 1:So all of those circumstances not come to play had I not done the practice of stepping into that piece and when I'm talking and we bring it back to forgiveness, even, you know, trying to forgive my abuser. It was a every day. Okay, the memory comes up, process the memory, let go of the memory. For me, I had to be like, okay, I wouldn't be here this way and the way that I am if all of those things hadn't led me to this point. And really, what I got out of the whole lesson, believe it or not, was forgiveness Like at such a level that there are people who are like I can't believe that you were able to forgive that person. And I said it wasn't about the person, I had to. I had to let go of trying to forgive, even if the person was still alive. To forgive them alive or dead is irrelevant. Right.
Speaker 2:It really was.
Speaker 1:I was so angry, like angry, and I got to the point where I was. I was like I was. I couldn't even be with my own self anymore.
Speaker 2:Like, okay, that's kind of tough when you can't be with yourself.
Speaker 1:And so it's like, okay, well, we need to process this and I need to forgive and it was a practice. It actually took me years, it wasn't. It took me years to forgive, at the level that, if I heard a name, had a memory, something happened. I didn't have a visceral reaction to it.
Speaker 2:No, it absolutely makes sense. And I had a situation where I was raped when I was very young. I was only five and I completely forgot about it. But going through my process, it wasn't until I was 33 that the memory of it came up. But it wasn't just the memory, it was, as you said, the visual. I could smell his breath, I could feel him on me, I could feel him in me, I could see I was in the room again. All of that and I process.
Speaker 2:I process through it at that time, through meditation. This is why I also know I had been meditating already for about four years, but it brought me to the point where I had to call that up from deep within, even though I forgot about it. I had to really call it up to let go of it. That was the reason for it, because I'm like, I'm a good meditator. Why is this coming up? Why does it? Why I'm like, oh my God, it wasn't, it was not just the thought of it, I actually relived it as if I was in the moment. That's how deep it was. And when it started coming out, it took me three months, Like well, I had always met.
Speaker 2:I always meditate twice a day, but even meditating, like in between, that to like I got to clear this stuff out, you know, to fully release it. But when I did, when I did and of course this person had long since passed away because he was like a great grand uncle and so what I came to realize as I'm meditating and so I clear it out, I'm like, oh, my God, Thank you so much for that experience. I mean, I wasn't even thinking it, it's what was inside of me, it was the thank you, Thank you for that experience. Wait, what If that act at the age of five had not happened in the way that it did, of five had not happened in the way that it did, I truly would not be where I am now.
Speaker 2:And part of my journey, even in reference to men, was always connected back to that situation that I had no awareness of, right, Right. So when I read the story about my, you know, wonderful beloved teacher that's what I call him now, my beloved teacher that was kind of like the. It's like the scab that's on a wound, but the reality is the wound never healed, because that wound is so deep and so far back that it looked like it had healed. Because you know, here's the scab. Yeah, but with the experience I read earlier and you ripped that scab off and I did go into forgiveness and all of that which was beautiful and all of that which was beautiful.
Speaker 2:But it also let me know that you know, because of the pain there's some more things I needed to do which is how I got started, and then it became time to now, after you know, having become ordained, after starting this work for about four years later, that's when I realized, oh, my consciousness is able to remember and the wound to the core so that it can be released and, you know, so forth. So even when I think of him today and I talk about him, I have no more visceral reaction of anything on any level, and the only thing I feel for my abuser is true divine love. That's all I experience. And the same thing with my beloved teacher in the story. When I think of him, all I feel is just, you know, a wonderful kind of divine love, but there's no more of that longing and that heart and stuff and all of that's gone yeah, and and you know time is is, take advantage of it when you, when you have the time to, to, to do the, the processing, and I feel the same way.
Speaker 1:I've said thank you as well, thank you for teaching me, because there's this book called Radical Forgiveness. I think I talked about it already and I really love that book. But one of the things that I really got from reading that particular book was about what you said. When we come and we come to learn lessons and he talks about it's Colin tipping who wrote the book. He talks about the soul contracts that we make, like we literally have a tribe of people we travel through with and this might be a little hard for some people to understand, but it's a belief that I have that you know, if we are souls and we've come here to learn some lessons, we actually and we forget what those are, because otherwise then you wouldn't learn lesson. You have this conversation with a group of other souls and you say, hey, here we are at a table, these are the lessons I want to learn. What are the lessons you want to learn? What do you want to learn? What do you want to learn?
Speaker 2:And how are we going to serve each other?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how are we going to serve each other? How is this all going to play out? And then, and then you go and have the play, you, you go play a game and the game is something you requested, you initiated, initiated, and all the players are doing exactly what you had asked them to do. When I got that for myself, or or that worked for me, it may not work for everybody else, but having a lot of thoughts saying, wait a minute, I asked for this, like from the perspective of I wanted to learn this lesson and this is the way it had to play out for me to learn the lesson. Oh well, thank you, you did your job and you did it really well.
Speaker 1:That is where I was able to finally like, like I told you, it took years, it was bits and pieces of chipping away at, you know, over, over, like 20 years of abuse. It does like that forgiveness didn't happen to happen for me right away, but when I understood that and I was able to to see that, it was like, oh, okay, well, gosh, thank you. And then, every time after that, I thought about you know, you don't remember every single thing. Every time you have a pain or something like that. Right, so you're, I thought to myself.
Speaker 1:Every time it comes up, I'm like, oh well, this me resilient, thank you, this true. Well, this made me resilient. Thank you, this taught me how to be compassionate. Oh, thank you. Oh, this is supposed to be teaching me about boundaries. Huh, okay, thank you.
Speaker 1:Now it doesn't happen just like that. It is a process, and for me, I'm a talker, so for me, I I've just been very blessed to have so many wonderful spiritual leaders and guides in my life that I can go to and and kind of just do my verbal diarrhea and get what I need to help me process all of those things. So, whatever it takes for someone to do that, whether it's a counselor, whether it's a coach, whether it's a spiritual teacher, whether it's a book you know, or a podcast, or you know a video, whatever it may be I really strongly urge those of you who are grappling and struggling and being challenged with the weight of whatever you feel has happened to you or what actually has happened to you not feel what has happened to you to take the time to give this gift to yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes, and also to do the work. One thing I want to say is everyone's time for processing and to process is different. What took you several years, based on what took place with you, for me took three months with that particular situation. Of course, it was years later and so, in my own way, I was processing through it, just didn't know it. But even the length of time that we process through things is up to us, because it's important we do our share of the work. For example, you know if you're going to work out with a fitness trainer once a week. You're not going to only work out once a week and think you know you'll have progress, but it's going to take you a lot longer.
Speaker 2:But you're the one that has to either get up in the morning or in the evening, or whenever you designated the time. You know, either pick up those weights, do those exercises and keep the momentum going.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's how you actually get through it. So I agree with you, nina, being able to a life coach, a counselor, as you say, watching a podcast, listening to podcasts or music there are so many different ways and there are plethora of healing modalities, which is what we at Miracles Resources are working to bring to the table. So, even if you haven't heard of something, you're not familiar with it, it may resonate with you, someone may resonate with you. There's something you can gain from it and learn that you can practice, even you know, on your own, so that you can work through these things much more quickly and hopefully, although it feels very painful, it can still be a little bit easier. And yes, we do have soul contracts, as, as you were saying, when we all you know, certain spiritual beings come in together, it's no different than the director and producer of any movie or any play that you watch. They create the cast that work with each other, each playing certain roles in order to create a dynamic story. And even in watching film and theater, you're going to learn something, you're going to grow from it. It's a mirror of life as we experience it, with all the different characters and personalities and everything else. Well, that's also what happens when we come in, as you say you know, with a group of souls that we will connect with.
Speaker 2:And I wanted to say this final thing when you move into complete forgiveness, you know how you're. There is when you're no longer experiencing it in your body, you're not obsessed with it in your mind, it's not hurting your heart and you can say whew, thank you, thank you for showing up in my life. The way that you did that was phenomenal. When you can genuinely say that and experience it, you know you have moved into complete forgiveness. And even if you've not gone into forgiveness yet, if you can do what the other story of this woman I was sharing with you can do, I am grateful that so-and-so is in my life. I am so happy I had that experience.
Speaker 2:I am in appreciation of the part that this person played or this experience has had in my life, experiences had in my life. I'm grateful for it. You may not feel it at first, you may not believe it, you may feel like you're being disingenuous, but you know what, it doesn't matter. You say it anyway, you think it anyway, you allow yourself to feel it anyway. And, as Nina was sharing in reference to her job, as I was sharing in reference to that story. Doing it that way, you'll move into a place where you will one day say, oh, this is true, I didn't think it was before, but no, it is. And I'm thankful, I'm really thankful, you know that you've moved into forgiveness, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And you get that joy, like I mean, you do get to a place where you're actually joyful because now you don't have all of that angst and anger and you're like, oh, thank goodness, because I didn't like that, I didn't like how that felt and you know. As a final, final thought, first of all, thank you. Thank you for bringing up this conversation. So, just so that you know, lynn and I never know what we're going to talk about. We kind of start to now I've started to press record, we kind of ramble it out and figure it out and then we just go into a conversation. So thank you so much because this topic means the world to me. I mean, I have another podcast that's kind of a little bit been on hiatus. It's called from victim to victory. It's all about stories of forgiveness and because I know it is so powerful. So, for those of you again who have your own story to share, we would love to have your comments, share your stories.
Speaker 1:If you're looking for support, come to the site. It is a miracles uwresourcescom. Click on our directory. You will find healers there to support you. If you're not sure what to do, send us a message. We are on all kinds of social media. We're on LinkedIn, we are on TikTok, we're on Instagram, we're on Facebook. So we're everywhere. So reach out to us, look for us, put in the comments if you need something. We're here to help you. Thank you so much for taking your valuable time to listen into our conversation. We hope that it's made a difference. Thank you for joining us today on Healers Talk Healing. We hope you've been inspired and empowered on your holistic healing journey. If you've enjoyed today's episode and want to continue learning and growing with us, don't forget to subscribe, follow, rate and review our podcast. Your feedback and support mean the world to us. Remember, healing is a lifelong journey and you have the power to transform your life in profound ways. Stay curious, keep exploring and never stop believing in your own capacity for healing.
